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    The Twelfth Doctor

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    UKSteve

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    The Twelfth Doctor

    Post  UKSteve on June 3rd 2013, 5:33 pm

    Well I figured since Paeter has been saying we should have some Doctor Who chat around these parts, sooner or later somebody was going to raise this subject.

    So I have: anybody have an opinion on who should be the next Doctor? Should it (or can it) be a woman, which seems to be the hot question at the moment?

    Personally, I think Bill Bailey does a nice line in bemused slightly other-worldliness which would make a fun Doctor, but I don't think that's very likely. Any better ideas out there?

    TheTJ

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    Re: The Twelfth Doctor

    Post  TheTJ on June 4th 2013, 5:10 am

    As a joke Gordon Ramsay.

    As for the woman part... while it might work in theory, I can't imagine it being done in a way which wouldn't seem gimmicky now. If they had done it back when they were considering it first, back during the end of Tom Baker's run, it might be established by now. As it stands I think it'd just be odd.

    Drew.Rub

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    Re: The Twelfth Doctor

    Post  Drew.Rub on June 4th 2013, 9:35 am

    UKSteve wrote:
    So I have: anybody have an opinion on who should be the next Doctor?

    I saw someone recommend Simon Pegg as the next Doctor, and I know on Facebook there's a recommendation for having John Hurt be the 12th. I like the recommendation of Simon Pegg better. Not sure who I'd recommend for a female Doctor, but I could see it happening.

    Since a TimeLord is only allowed to regen 12 times (except for "The Master"), kind of makes me wonder what's going to happen when the 12th is done. Of course, David Tenats 10th Doctor had a "daughter", so they could potentially bring her back and keep going.


    UKSteve

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    Re: The Twelfth Doctor

    Post  UKSteve on June 4th 2013, 1:20 pm

    I did wonder whether the last season finale was an indication that Eleven was about to hang up his bow tie, but it also suggests that there was a previous Doctor who looked like John Hurt but who we don't like to talk about. That would also suggest he is about to run out of regenerations too, but I'm sure if the franchise still has legs when the time comes the writers will come up with a work around.

    I think Simon Pegg is too much of a movie star now to do Doctor Who - I mean, who were David Tenant and Matt Smith before Doctor Who?

    Not sure I could handle a female Doctor either - 950+ years in male form seems pretty close to permanent, and to change now would seem like an unnecessary nod to feminism. (I may need to hide behind the sofa for saying that though...)

    TheTJ

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    Re: The Twelfth Doctor

    Post  TheTJ on June 4th 2013, 4:48 pm

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    BEWARE! There be SPOILERS below!
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    I've almost 100% convinced myself that John Hurt is Doctor 8 1/2. There are a couple of reasons for this. First is the costume he's wearing, velvet clothes and a leather jacket, second is the specific mention of Valeyard in The Name of the Doctor, third is the fact he can ONLY be from the Time War, and fourth is the fact that you can't just disown your past and not have it count. Plus if he were the 12th Doctor, 11 wouldn't have known what he had done or the circumstances.

    Starting with the first one, the costume. No 2 Doctors have ever had remotely similar outfits. Except this one. For some reason he has the velvet clothes that the 8th Doctor was known for, and the leather jacket that the 9th wore. Having a similar outfit to a Doctor would be one thing, but a mix between two consecutive? He's probably an amalgamation.

    Now the Valeyard. For those of you who don't know, the Valeyard was a villain from the classic series of Doctor Who. He was a projected evil version of the Doctor between the Doctor's 12th and 13th selves, and was made real by the Matrix, the Time Lords repository of all knowledge. This seems like a minor point, but it's fairly big considering the huge disconnect of the old and new series of Doctor Who, especially when it comes to Time Lords. So why bring it up at all? To set precedent. If they make the Valeyard canon in the new series then the concept of a "Halfway Point" between two incarnations of one Time Lord becomes valid and no one can really say "Oh, you pulled that one out of nowhere."

    Now for the Time War. We know all of the Doctors regenerations from the old series. In The Five Doctors Peter Davison confirms he is the 5th Doctor... maybe even the 5th "him" I can't remember it's been too long. We also see every regeneration up to McGann. So he's not from before the Time War. And much easier is the New series, we see Eccleston turn into Tennant and Tennant into Smith. Not a whole lot of wiggle room there. The Only Grey area is between 8 and 9. Why do I think this helps my theory of Doctor 8.5? Because the Time Lords were the only ones who could pull this off, they were desperate enough in the Time War to try anything (And I imagine the Doctor was the only effective enemy of the Daleks) and during the Time War was the only time the Doctor would have been at hand.

    And now for the disowning. I don't like it. Lots of reasons, but here's just a few. Matt Smith said when he chose the name Doctor it was because he wanted to help people, yet the 1st Doctor constantly had to be forced into helping, sometimes actively fighting against it. You also have tons of 3rd party material confirming 9, 10 and 11 as 9, 10, and 11. Not to mention that whole "Fall of 11" thing. Remember that? Moffett's entire run of the show revolved around the "silence will fall" deal? It didn't say 11th Doctor, it said 11th. And since when does the Doctor disown himself? EVERY time he mentions the Time War he owns up to whatever it was he did, good or bad. He never even said he was a "Different man then", at least not to my memory.

    So there you are, plenty of reasons why John Hurt should be 8.5, and the only for 9 it is "It might be cool, but major plot holes."

    UKSteve wrote:... to change now would seem like an unnecessary nod to feminism. (I may need to hide behind the sofa for saying that though...)

    Are you implying that feminists are terrifying monsters? :^P

    Paeter
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    Re: The Twelfth Doctor

    Post  Paeter on June 5th 2013, 12:48 pm

    My wife ran into something online yesterday about Emma Watson (Harry Potter girl) being the next doctor.

    Obviously I'm way out of my depth here(not a Who fan), but I can't help but wonder if a female doctor could result in some interesting stories. If they avoid playing it for the predictable comedy, it could make for a fascinating exploration of what makes us different as men and women. But I'd agree it shouldn't be done as a gimmick. Only if the writers feel like there are some genuinely rich and meaningful stories that could be told as a result of the change.


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    Re: The Twelfth Doctor

    Post  Guest on June 5th 2013, 6:22 pm

    TheTJ wrote:Now the Valeyard. For those of you who don't know, the Valeyard was a villain from the classic series of Doctor Who. He was a projected evil version of the Doctor between the Doctor's 12th and 13th selves, and was made real by the Matrix, the Time Lords repository of all knowledge.
    (Emphasis mine)

    Not meaning to be argumentative, as the nature of the Valeyard is fun to speculate over. From the original story, "The Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker side of [The Doctor's] nature, somewhere between [his] 12th and Final Regeneration."

    "Between the 12th and 13th Regeneration" is not the same as "between 12th and Final Regeneration." There's room there an endless number of new Doctors beyond the 12th and before the Final one; as many as the series needs (and more beyond). The Master was once on his last life in the old show, then was reborn in the new series with a whole new wave of lives (any squandering of them that he might have done notwithstanding).

    In some respects, the Valeyard could merely be a projection of a potential future, which the Doctor could eventually dislodge from actually happening.

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