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    "Christian" music and non-orthodox beliefs?

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    tmorrill

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    "Christian" music and non-orthodox beliefs?

    Post  tmorrill on January 19th 2014, 3:37 am

    So one thing that I've been convicted on lately is related to the conversation Nathan and Paeter had on the most recent podcast about disturbing trends in Christian media.

    How far should we go to avoid entertainment from people that profess faith, but are outside of the orthodox?

    An example would be a group like Phillips Craig & Dean. Their recordings of "Revelation Song" and "Great I Am" for example are probably among my favorite versions of those songs. Oh and they are all part of Oneness Pentecostal Churches the last I heard.

    Is this one of the areas where we have freedom to listen to their music as long as we bear in mind their theological bent, or should we tune them out completely?

    Try as I might I can't picture someone like Athanasius listening to Arius sing one of the Psalms and not Santa-Clausing him. Also, yes Santa-Clausing is now a verb.

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    Re: "Christian" music and non-orthodox beliefs?

    Post  Rohelf on January 20th 2014, 12:15 pm

    I'm not familiar with either the artist or the songs in question, so you'll have to help me understand your position a little better. Do you have an objection to the content of the songs themselves, or only to the songwriters' beliefs as expressed elsewhere? If the first, I could see dropping them from your playlist, but if the second, I personally wouldn't worry about it. If you try to eliminate from your viewing/listening/reading/etc. any works that involve anyone who has at any point said or done something objectionable, you'll quickly run out of entertainment, and miss a lot of very good things. If you feel personally bothered by supporting these artists, then you're perfectly justified in refusing to do so. I just don't see this as a universal moral issue.

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    Re: "Christian" music and non-orthodox beliefs?

    Post  Paeter on January 21st 2014, 5:06 pm

    I think this falls in the camp of "food sacrificed to idols". I want to apologize if our conversation gave the impression that we shouldn't take in entertainment content contrary to Biblical teaching. Whether professing Christians or not, as Kim mentioned there is still good to be found in imperfect material. (I'm BANKING on it for my listenership!)

    I'd say there's only a need to drop content from your life if you find that it is shaping or influencing you in a way counter to scripture.


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    Re: "Christian" music and non-orthodox beliefs?

    Post  Nathan James Norman on January 22nd 2014, 8:43 am

    These are just my personal thoughts...

    I read/consume ideas from a variety of places and perspectives. From Atheism to Islam, to Judaism. Certainly we as believers need to be discerning of truth (even in "Christian" media).

    But the Phillips, Craig and Dean (and others) issue is a bit different. While there might not be anything objectionable in the content of the songs mentioned (because they were written by others and PCD are essentially doing covers of them), their personal theology is dangerously wrong.

    Not only that, but they reject the Trinity, believe one must be baptized to be saved, speak in tongues as evidence of salvation, do other works to ensure salvation... and they still operate under the banner of "Christianity".

    Furthermore, when these three pastors (yes they are pastors... so they have greater accountability here) are asked about their divergent theology... they are intentionally deceptive.

    Here was their comments on the Trinity:
    Affirming the "existence of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit – the Three in One."
    "[w]e believe in one God who is eternal in His existence, Triune in His manifestation, being both Father, Son, and Holy Ghost and that He is Sovereign and Absolute in His authority."

    To the average Joe (or Jill)... this sounds like standard Christian belief. But it's not. They believe in modalism (only one person who has taken on different roles in history) which is not historical Christianity.

    And they know that.

    Instead of coming out and honestly saying... "hey, we have different views. We don't believe in the Trinity. We don't believe in salvation by faith in Jesus through grace. And we think all of our listeners who don't speak in tongues are going to hell" .... they hide behind cleverly crafted statements that sound like they're saying one thing... but really saying another.

    I ran into the same issue with PCD not too long ago... my personal solution was to find the songs (written by orthodox Christians) and download them from others.

    For me... the issue here isn't about listening to or enjoying people with different viewpoints. I do that all the time. No. the issue is supporting and promoting people who pretend to be historical, orthodox Christians... but really aren't.... and then try to deceive people about what they really believe.

    I'd rather buy a book from Richard Dawkins.
    At least I know where he stands.



    Again. Just my thoughts.

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    Re: "Christian" music and non-orthodox beliefs?

    Post  Dunadwarf on January 22nd 2014, 1:57 pm

    Nathan James Norman wrote:For me... the issue here isn't about listening to or enjoying people with different viewpoints. I do that all the time. No. the issue is supporting and promoting people who pretend to be historical, orthodox Christians... but really aren't.... and then try to deceive people about what they really believe.
    That makes sense. I think your previous statement just wasn't clear on this point.
    I agree that misrepresentation and hypocrisy are some of the most egregious things people can do.

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    Re: "Christian" music and non-orthodox beliefs?

    Post  Nathan James Norman on January 22nd 2014, 4:33 pm

    Dunadwarf wrote:
    That makes sense. I think your previous statement just wasn't clear on this point.
    I agree that misrepresentation and hypocrisy are some of the most egregious things people can do.

    Thanks Dunadwarf!

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    Re: "Christian" music and non-orthodox beliefs?

    Post  tmorrill on January 22nd 2014, 5:38 pm

    Nathan, you did a better job saying what I meant to say than I did, thanks! That's been the solution I've come to for the most part after askin' a couple other people.

    Paeter, you guys have nothing to apologize for I didn't get that impression from the podcast.

    I've got no problem having and ejoying non-Christian literature and entertainment (my copy of the Qur'an is right next to my copy of The God Delusion), but when it comes to people who deny core doctrines and add extra doctrines and still parade themselves around as Christian then it gets a bit muddier.

    Especially when it's a band like PCD and they have good songs that they covered.

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    Re: "Christian" music and non-orthodox beliefs?

    Post  WhiteBoy on January 29th 2014, 1:37 pm

    I agree with what Nathan said, and have little to add.  I too consume all kinds of entertainment, Christian and non-Christian.  I used to like a band called Bride and owned a few of their albums.  However I discovered that Dale Thompson, the lead singer and leader of the band, is openly a universalist and (of course) puts his theology into his lyrics.   As I said I have no problem consuming non-Christian entertainment, but I see danger in something that is in kinda grey.  It if you're not careful can end up being confusing.  

    As an example, if I'm listening to Rob Zombie, I know what I get and that nothing he says should be accepted as truth. I just ignore any words that I happen to understand and enjoy it for the pure musical entertainment.  But one of the reasons to listen to Christian music is to also be inspired and enlightened spiritually; it can speak to your heart if you open it and allow it.  Yes, I could approach Bride the same way I do Rob Zombie -- with a closed heart -- but I suppose I would just rather not bother.

    I know this is pretty much rephrasing what has already been said, but I wanted to give a personal example of how I have dealt with it.


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    Re: "Christian" music and non-orthodox beliefs?

    Post  Nathan James Norman on January 29th 2014, 3:17 pm

    WhiteBoy wrote:I agree with what Nathan said, and have little to add.  I too consume all kinds of entertainment, Christian and non-Christian.  I used to like a band called Bride and owned a few of their albums.  However I discovered that Dale Thompson, the lead singer and leader of the band, is openly a universalist and (of course) puts his theology into his lyrics.   As I said I have no problem consuming non-Christian entertainment, but I see danger in something that is in kinda grey.  It if you're not careful can end up being confusing.  

    As an example, if I'm listening to Rob Zombie, I know what I get and that nothing he says should be accepted as truth.  I just ignore any words that I happen to understand and enjoy it for the pure musical entertainment.  But one of the reasons to listen to Christian music is to also be inspired and enlightened spiritually; it can speak to your heart if you open it and allow it.  Yes, I could approach Bride the same way I do Rob Zombie -- with a closed heart -- but I suppose I would just rather not bother.

    I know this is pretty much rephrasing what has already been said, but I wanted to give a personal example of how I have dealt with it.

    I think you brought up a great point here!

    When I'm consuming Christian-based entertainment... I tend to let my defenses down. That's where this stuff becomes important... because as you pointed out... we're looking for spiritual edification from dubious places.

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