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    Idea For (Re)Examination?

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    Paeter
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    Idea For (Re)Examination?

    Post  Paeter on April 8th 2014, 4:56 pm

    Hasn't been much activity here in a little while so I thought I'd see if anyone was interested in putting a doctrine on the table for re-examination. Could be a widely agreed-upon doctrine or a typically divisive one. Not that I'm looking to heat things up here. Never hurts to practice gracious comparison of ideas though!

    Doesn't have to be a can of worms. Could just as easily be a widely accepted idea that could use a fresh perspective.

    Any thoughts?


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    WhiteBoy
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    Re: Idea For (Re)Examination?

    Post  WhiteBoy on April 9th 2014, 12:44 pm

    I've been reading a book called Everyday Church. I'm definitely not a reader so my reading a book is noteworthy in itself. When I do read, I'm slow. But I've been enjoying this book very much. Has anyone else read it? I encourage you to if you haven't.

    That isn't a doctrine per se, but it deals with the ways we "do church" and minister to people in a post-Christian culture. (So maybe it's the doctrine of evangelism?) One point the book makes is that our lives tend to be centered around the church (i.e. the location). We think in terms of "how do we get people in to the church so they can be saved." We need to be focusing on going out to where the people are; lost people are not going to come to church. We need to be on mission wherever we are -- as if we were a missionary in a foreign country -- always looking for ways to minister to them and witness to them.

    We need to look for ways to meet needs. Become involved in the different communities. Last night as I read this spoke to me and my involvement in this CGC community. It blesses me to be able to have a place where fellow belivers are able to share needs and pray for one another. I also thought of Paeter's recent topic of our tendency, as geeks, to be introverted. That is something we (read "I) have to work on because as Christians, we need to be out involved in people's lives.

    One simple sentence challenged me: "Leave the house." Personally, I tend to be a home body. I come home from work and I'm tired and ready to relax. The challenge is to not plop down on the couch and watch a movie, but go be involved in someone's life. If you want to watch a movie, go to a neighbor's house or a friend's house. Make it a group event rather than an isolated thing. How will we know how to minister to someone if we're not involved in their life?

    These are just some of the many things that I've been challenged with by reading the book. Again I challenge all of you to read it, too. I've just been lazy when it comes to witnessing and ministering. It has helped give me a missional perspective on what is a more biblical way of living my life.


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    Nathan James Norman
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    Re: Idea For (Re)Examination?

    Post  Nathan James Norman on April 9th 2014, 2:16 pm

    WhiteBoy wrote:

    That isn't a doctrine per se, but it deals with the ways we "do church" and minister to people in a post-Christian culture.  (So maybe it's the doctrine of evangelism?)

    It might be called a "theology of leisure". What do we do with our free time? Why does God give us extra time in the day? Is it to entertain ourselves... or is there something more?

    I love the ideas you communicated!

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    Re: Idea For (Re)Examination?

    Post  Paeter on April 9th 2014, 5:53 pm

    Nathan James Norman wrote:
    It might be called a "theology of leisure". What do we do with our free time? Why does God give us extra time in the day? Is it to entertain ourselves... or is there something more?

    Wow, yeah. That's worth putting on the table. And something I've been increasingly pondering. I want to avoid enslaving myself to manufactured laws regarding my free time, but I also don't want to make entertainment a higher priority than it should be. An area I have a lot of history failing in.

    The idea of doing a personal bible study on leisure has crossed my mind. (The first stops possibly being a read through of Ecclesiastes and Proverbs) But I haven't committed myself to it yet.

    Anyone have any scripture they have used to guide their understanding of leisure/free time?

    Or has anyone discovered some red flags that indicate to them they ought to cut back or approach free time differently somehow?

    My most recent red flag I shared on the podcast (at least I think I did). I was looking to entertainment for comfort and healing from the wounds of everyday life and stress, which I believe is harmful to my relationship with Jesus.

    Other than that I haven't had many recent developments in my thoughts about how much or how little free time I ought to give to entertainment, or specifically to isolated entertainment.

    I'm real open to hearing what others think on this!


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    tmorrill

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    Re: Idea For (Re)Examination?

    Post  tmorrill on April 17th 2014, 3:56 am

    Whiteboy, our church has been transitioning to being missionally minded like you describe and making the people the focus rather than the ministry. It's been exciting to watch as the church I attend reorients itself with a focus on the small group and the Church as people rather the building. I haven't read the book, but I'll add it to my list after I finish another one I'm reading now.


    Paeter wrote:
    I'm real open to hearing what others think on this!

    I've tried, but I can't view down time separate from the rest of my day, since the fact even the existence of time is at His pleasure. So my "big picture" answer would have me fall back onto Westminster
    "The chief purpose of man is to glorify God and enjoy him forever.

    I also fall back onto 1 Corinthians 10:23 to
    Everything is permissible, but not everything is helpful. Everything is permissible, but not everything builds up


    I might be overly impressionable but the red flag for needing to change how I spend my leisure time is when I can see it tinting my world view in a way I'd rather have a Christ-centered filter on.

    All that being said, I find myself constantly needing to reminding myself of Romans 7:15 when I fail at being a good steward of the time I've been given. I guess that's part of the process of sanctification.
    ...And also many other times during the day...

    I guess if I had to sum up my theology of leisure in 2 sentences I'd put it something like this.
    "Let everything you do bring glory to Christ. When you fail, don't panic because Christ is greater."

    Now all that's left is defining what does and doesn't bring glory to Christ...

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    Re: Idea For (Re)Examination?

    Post  Paeter on April 17th 2014, 7:42 pm

    tmorrill wrote:
    "Let everything you do bring glory to Christ. When you fail, don't panic because Christ is greater."

    Second external reminder in under 10 minutes that I would like to do an ISOT on the doctrine (and practice) of grace. One of those things we give lip service to and smile and nod about, but man my life would be so different if I TRULY relied on grace moment by moment. And I would wager that in some ways geeks could especially benefit from a right view and application of grace.
    Sorry, that's a rabbit trail.


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    WhiteBoy
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    Re: Idea For (Re)Examination?

    Post  WhiteBoy on April 18th 2014, 10:52 am

    Paeter wrote:Sorry, that's a rabbit trail.
    Sounded right on topic to me.  Smile

    Both Tom's and Paeter's comments led me to think... How about doing a series on the five solae:  Scripture alone, faith alone, grace alone, Christ alone, and glory to God alone.  You don't have to call it the five solae if you don't want to, of course.  In Spirit Blade fashion you could call them the "five only's" Smile.  Regardless, these teachings are basic, yet powerful when you study them.


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    Paeter
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    Re: Idea For (Re)Examination?

    Post  Paeter on April 21st 2014, 1:03 pm

    WhiteBoy wrote:
    Both Tom's and Paeter's comments led me to think...  How about doing a series on the five solae:  Scripture alone, faith alone, grace alone, Christ alone, and glory to God alone.  You don't have to call it the five solae if you don't want to, of course.  In Spirit Blade fashion you could call them the "five only's" Smile.  Regardless, these teachings are basic, yet powerful when you study them.

    That grouping of ideas comes from the reformation, right? I've never considered doing that, but I'll give it some thought.

    I think grace specifically jumps out at me right now because I'm repeatedly seeing ways in which a real, moment-by-moment application of grace to our thoughts and lives can change the way we function as geeks.

    Many geeks, like myself, are very insecure. And this insecurity is based in a great weight being given to the opinions of others and the idea (conscious or subconscious) that how others perceive us or what we do is what gives us worth. This way of thinking makes us overly defensive and reflexively judgmental when wounded (even when we are "wounded" by things we shouldn't be).

    Remembering the ridiculously untiring grace of God has noticeably and repeatedly rescued me from some harmful thought patterns. It's something I want to grow so much more in because I'm already seeing the benefits of relying on grace to the infantile degree that I am now.

    When grace is kept in play, we feel hurt less and we hurt others less. When we neglect remembering and relying on grace, our insecurity and wounds become worse and we hurt those around us, despite always feeling like the victim.

    Anyway, I've got other work to give attention to, so I can't develop this any further here. But it has been on my mind.


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    rossmcclure4

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    Re: Idea For (Re)Examination?

    Post  rossmcclure4 on May 4th 2014, 8:03 am

    Paeter wrote:When grace is kept in play, we feel hurt less and we hurt others less. When we neglect remembering and relying on grace, our insecurity and wounds become worse and we hurt those around us, despite always feeling like the victim.

    tmorrill wrote:"Let everything you do bring glory to Christ. When you fail, don't panic because Christ is greater."

    Been away from a ground-line computer network for a little bit, but came back to find this discussion. Please keep it going! I feel i've benefited from the discussion and enjoy it.

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