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    Does "Gaming Evil" Lead To "Living Evil"?

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    Paeter
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    Does "Gaming Evil" Lead To "Living Evil"?

    Post  Paeter on June 16th 2014, 1:54 pm

    Found this video from Gamespot on the subject interesting! What do YOU think??



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    WhiteBoy
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    Re: Does "Gaming Evil" Lead To "Living Evil"?

    Post  WhiteBoy on June 25th 2014, 1:11 pm

    Interesting. I usually like to play evil roles in games, and like one guy said in the video I guess it's a way to do things that I normally wouldn't. I'm not sure what that says about me. Smile As far as I know that doesn't make more likely to be mean to others IRL.


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    Re: Does "Gaming Evil" Lead To "Living Evil"?

    Post  Paeter on June 25th 2014, 3:09 pm

    I suppose I tend toward "evil" (depends on the views of the game designers!) or whatever choices I'm most curious about in the moment. (Which can lead to a pretty chaotic play style.) I like dark stories, so I often play characters who have some good motives mixed with bad ideas and that butcher it either way in the execution.

    I dig power fantasies, which often leads to evil choices in RPGs. I want to see how powerful and influential my character can become. But I also find that the better a game studio does at making me care about the characters in their world, the more noble choices I make the first play through. But even if I DO play the "hero" the first time through in a good game, you can bet the second time I go full evil so I can see all the content I missed the first time.

    I thought it was very interesting that the experiment provided no data on the long term (even "hours later") effects of playing evil characters.


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    Re: Does "Gaming Evil" Lead To "Living Evil"?

    Post  WhiteBoy on June 27th 2014, 3:44 pm

    My typical first play through is going evil. In The Old Republic, I have one character who I always did Dark Side choices. With certain classes, that leads to some pretty disturbing choices. Most recently I went through the Bounty Hunter class and played as a pretty selfish character...whatever paid the best is what I went with for the most part. Still, while trying to play a "neutral" character, I still found myself tending toward the light side choices as manifested by my light side/dark side meter keep creeping up towards the light side. I found that interesting.


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    Re: Does "Gaming Evil" Lead To "Living Evil"?

    Post  DNArington on June 27th 2014, 5:53 pm

    I haven't played very many games that give you a choice, but I have played through Infamous which has a good/bad system. I played through good, because I like heroes I can root for. Most of the choices are very basic (kill this person and steal his stuff or help him out and he'll give you what you need and so on), but there was one choice where their good and bad was skewed as to what I thought was good and bad. There was a really short time limit on this decision too, so I ended up doing their good to keep up my good scale.

    I just bought the first season of The Walking Dead game series ($5 on Steam for a short time only!) and I know that it has a lot of choices like that so I'm excited to try it out.

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    Re: Does "Gaming Evil" Lead To "Living Evil"?

    Post  WhiteBoy on June 30th 2014, 9:46 am

    Yes, that game is great for tough decisions. There's no good choice! Makes for some really good game play.


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    Re: Does "Gaming Evil" Lead To "Living Evil"?

    Post  Paeter on June 30th 2014, 10:36 am

    WhiteBoy wrote:Yes, that game is great for tough decisions.  There's no good choice!  Makes for some really good game play.

    For my tastes, games like that have reach an "uncanny valley" where I don't see difficult choices simulating real-life complexity, but rather limited choices based on even more limited information. So many times I want the "stand up for what's right without being a jerk option" or the opportunity to ask a clarifying question. Grrrr.

    It's this kind of thing that makes it easier for me to disconnect from the moral choices presented in games and just do whatever I'm most curious about without feeling guilty OR heroic.


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    Re: Does "Gaming Evil" Lead To "Living Evil"?

    Post  mikel.withers on November 4th 2014, 3:26 pm

    In order for me to get into a game, I need to empathize with either the character, or the goal. I have a really tough time getting into "make your own goal" games. Minecraft? Boring. Skyrim? I max out the skills and then stop playing...because I just don't care. GTA games? Absolutely no reason for me to want to be that guy.
    I even have issues playing strategy games... I love the Total War series, and there are certain tactics you can use, such as putting a unit of peasants out front to act as bait...or just a speedbump. ...I've tried, and I just can't put a bunch of dopes out there to be sacrificed: those are my citizens, and I should do what I can to protect them, and give them the best chance of living.
    I've also tried the good/evil games, KOTOR and Fable III, come to mind. In each, I played "honestly" the first time, which got me to upper light-side, if not maxed out. ...sometimes decisions can be "kick puppy or don't kick puppy"... which is kind of obvious, or "be an...jerk, or don't be a jerk", which, as I can't stand trash-talking ...jerks, means I am going to pick the don't be a jerk option. In both games, I've tried to replay as the evil line, but it no longer holds my interest.
    Or like Star Wars: Empire at War, I have to play as the Empire, because I don't want to see the galaxy go down into the flames of chaotic libertine-ism (every man did what was right in his own eyes).

    Now, what I would like to see, in this vein, is a test where Superman's enemies were school-children, and Voldemort was beating up terrorists, would that change how the avatar itself is viewed by the participant... or Superman is beating up thugs, and Voldemort is giving flowers to old ladies...would the violence be an issue?

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    Re: Does "Gaming Evil" Lead To "Living Evil"?

    Post  Battlemech37 on November 5th 2014, 4:32 pm

    I personally don't find it all that enjoyable to play as the bad guy - not to mention that it's just not who I am. For me, like others who have posted in the thread, it's all about identifying with the character. And being a bad character just isn't something I find all that fun to play. It's too bad games like GTA (which I've steered clear of because it forces you to play a bad character) couldn't give you the option to be good, as the open world game is something I've always liked. But, I also understand that in Rockstar's case (the creator of GTA), they're attempting to tell a story.

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    Re: Does "Gaming Evil" Lead To "Living Evil"?

    Post  tmorrill on November 5th 2014, 11:31 pm

    I'm not a huge fan of playing evil roles.

    That being said, when I play Red Dead Redemption I occasionally like to go on killing sprees and kill everyone I can.

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    Re: Does "Gaming Evil" Lead To "Living Evil"?

    Post  rossmcclure4 on November 13th 2014, 7:24 am

    I'm a sucker for a redemption story, so making a lot of mistakes or starting evil and trying to make a dynamic character is something I don't get tired of. I also find it useful and entertaining to use games to reinforce a "heroic ideal", so even if there is no change in the character, good characters I see as something I can learn from. I agree that throwing in some mistakes and soiling the character certainly enhances the story though. I like it when games can surprise me by leaving a path open...and I actually DO choose the bad path because I want whatever defective thing I think it gives! (Unlike ME3 where I'm given the blue: here's a really bad "good" choice and red: here's a clearly jerkish bad choice)

    Using an evil character, especially static evil characters, are taxing. It reminds me of how CS Lewis described feeling when trying to write "Screwtape: Proposes a Toast". I think it is possible that, much like hanging out with people dedicated to bad designs, characters in books, games and movies can rub off on you!

    But I have played bad characters for fun. When I finished "Fallout 2" I was "Paragon" and decided I would try and undo everything I did. I went town to town building alliances with gangs, selling drugs, and sometimes just butchering whole towns. If there was an evil ally to be had, or a good guy to kill I did it. I can't say that I found anything satisfying in it, I think that kind of "set the world on fire" evil exists so indulging in it just makes me sad.

    I've tried other evil types as well, and always found it unsatisfying.

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    Re: Does "Gaming Evil" Lead To "Living Evil"?

    Post  Paeter on November 13th 2014, 6:02 pm

    tmorrill wrote:I'm not a huge fan of playing evil roles.

    That being said, when I play Red Dead Redemption I occasionally like to go on killing sprees and kill everyone I can.

    lol! lol!


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    Re: Does "Gaming Evil" Lead To "Living Evil"?

    Post  Paeter on November 13th 2014, 6:05 pm

    rossmcclure4 wrote:
    But I have played bad characters for fun.  When I finished "Fallout 2" I was "Paragon" and decided I would try and undo everything I did.  I went town to town building alliances with gangs, selling drugs, and sometimes just butchering whole towns.  If there was an evil ally to be had, or a good guy to kill I did it.  I can't say that I found anything satisfying in it, I think that kind of "set the world on fire" evil exists so indulging in it just makes me sad.


    As an active military man you probably see a lot more evil than many of us, so that's no surprise. I wonder sometimes if I will lose my taste for darker stories once I reach the stage of life where I'm losing loved ones and experiencing intense suffering.


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    Re: Does "Gaming Evil" Lead To "Living Evil"?

    Post  rossmcclure4 on November 14th 2014, 6:05 am

    Paeter wrote:As an active military man you probably see a lot more evil than many of us, so that's no surprise. I wonder sometimes if I will lose my taste for darker stories once I reach the stage of life where I'm losing loved ones and experiencing intense suffering.

    I wonder the same thing sometimes, I'm a very sensitive person so I don't even really like watching dramas (there is plenty of drama, I don't NEED more drama lol). I've been blessed to be spared from much of the suffering that we know is present in most of the world, but I think you Christian types have some key things that really make it different for you. (Romans 5:3)

    1. When suffering occurs to you, you often seem at peace.
    2. When suffering occurs to those around you, it is as though it happens to you.

    I'm certainly blessed beyond what I can comprehend and more than I deserve, but I have seen it in what other people suffer. Especially here next to Gaza, this place LOOKS like Fallout, and people really do act like that. Flying over top the place looks like ramshackle, rusty aluminum and mud huts, many of them shattered and scorched from artillery and fire. The Sinai is the most desolate, desperate place I could have ever imagined, and I have no idea how people can even continue to live here. Bands of people, some terrorists, some religious zealots (of all three big ones), some criminals, some human traffickers, some workers for wealthy governments east and west all fight with each other everyday, one day they are one group's ally, the next they are their enemy, it is absolute chaos. Some people today find the idea of hell inconceivable, they've decided it must not be possible, and I sympathize with that. But hell to me is quite apparent...some of it is already here and pouring out of us.

    And I think that knowing that this evil and suffering is going on should NOT make us feel that we have something (some moral superiority, or position of greater insight into life or theology, etc.) that these people don't and that's why we are so "blessed", we are blessed because of God's mercy and nothing else.

    The suffering makes me realize that when all the flimsy comforts and weak convictions I have held have fled away from me that I'm not so different from anyone else, and I think we all need Christ presently and tangibly so badly. I'm beginning to think that praying for our enemies is a very practical reality, I don't think cruelty would happen if they were walking hand in hand with God at the moment, and the same thing happens with me and I do and am capable of all the same things they are.

    And finally, I think that being comfortably divorced from suffering, even in the most remote, hated and obscure part of the planet, is distinct disobedience for what Christ has commanded us to do. I think that confrontation with that evil is good for us because it burns away all those false convictions and compels us to desperate and continuous prayer, and may allow us to exercise the proper use of the will, just that next one step we need to take.

    Btw, I really like the extra life effort that you and the others have been working on and I'm really disappointed that I missed it. In the future, God willing and depending on what is going on over here, I would like to participate in some way. I think I see what you all have been led to do with this community, and I agree with it.


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    Re: Does "Gaming Evil" Lead To "Living Evil"?

    Post  Drew.Rub on November 14th 2014, 4:15 pm

    rossmcclure4 wrote:
    I've tried other evil types as well, and always found it unsatisfying.
    With the first Knights of the Old Republic, I played through on the light side. After beating it, I started up a new game and tried to make all the dark side selfish choices, and found it to be incredibly not fun. I think I'll jus stick to good guys...or at least not evil guys.

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