The Online Community Of Christian Geek Central


    celebrating getting married again

    Share

    Rickster

    Posts : 1197
    Activity : 1954
    Geek-Cred : 16
    Join date : 2010-07-05
    Age : 33

    celebrating getting married again

    Post  Rickster on June 29th 2015, 2:59 pm

    On Facebook someone posted an article about homosexuality and should we love the sinner but hate the sin. I commented that it wasn't the son I have a problem with its the celebration of the sin that I have a problem with. And someone replied asking how is it different then when we celebrate the wedding someone who was divorced when the Bible says they are living in sin?
    Any thoughts on that question

    mikel.withers

    Posts : 432
    Activity : 534
    Geek-Cred : 8
    Join date : 2014-10-27
    Location : Homer NY

    Re: celebrating getting married again

    Post  mikel.withers on June 30th 2015, 8:42 am

    I saw something related to that the other day on Facebook.
    There is a fairly large caveat in that whole "no remarriage" thing-
    Matthew 19: 9 And I tell you, whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery.” Sexual immorality...
    I don't want to get legalistic here, there is a heart issue that trumps all the others, but most marriages I've seen break up include some form of sexual immorality, either before the break up, or soon afterward. That being the case, while the divorce itself might not break the covenant of marriage, the sex outside of that marriage sure does.
    Not that there can't still be forgiveness... Hosea was told by God to marry a prostitute, one who wasn't faithful to him, as a symbol of God's forgiveness to his idolatrous/adulterous people. In the same way, it would be better for us to reconcile a broken marriage than to simply move on, but back to Matthew 19:8 He told them, “Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because of the hardness of your hearts. But it was not like that from the beginning. So God knows we live in a world of hardened hearts, and it isn't always possible to reconcile, after all, both people need to desire a reconciliation in this day and age. So, I'll go to my last point-
    There is an inherent sin to same-sex marriage (assuming that it is consummated) that is not there for male/female marriage. A remarried person could recognize they broke their first marriage, repent of that sin, and try their best to not to repeat that sin. However, an actively gay couple is founded on a sin; repenting of that would include a fundamental break in a marriage. I'm not saying it is impossible, far from it, but I think we should all be able to recognize that a homosexual person staying in a same-sex marriage, even if that includes celibacy, is going to be hanging out in temptation and not fleeing from it. (And having made marriage vows, the question then becomes which is worse: maintaining those vows or breaking them)

    mindspike
    Admin

    Posts : 552
    Activity : 697
    Geek-Cred : 38
    Join date : 2010-08-24
    Age : 42
    Location : Evansville, IN

    Re: celebrating getting married again

    Post  mindspike on June 30th 2015, 9:02 pm

    mikel.withers wrote:And having made marriage vows, the question then becomes which is worse: maintaining those vows or breaking them.

    To quote pastor Alistair Begg, "Let's not break a clear command of scripture (do not practice homosexuality) in an attempt to uphold a commandment that is less clear (do not get divorced)."

    If I may point out some logical fallacies in the arguments:

    1) The clear behavioral instructions in scripture are given to believers for the purpose of having their behavior glorify God, not to unbelievers for the purpose of sanctifying them. Attempting to instruct unbelievers in righteous behavior is counter-productive at best and destructive and worst.

    2) The marriage covenant established by God does not include homosexual relationships. Therefore, any homosexual marriage cannot break scriptural instruction by getting divorced. Nor can it gain scriptural legitimacy by establishing a marriage covenant. Homosexual marriage may legitimately be established by the state as a secular institution, but it has no place in orthodox Christian doctrine.

    3) The behavioral instructions of scripture always include repentance for sin (in this discussion, divorce), but less often include reparation for sin (in this discussion, remarriage). In fact Paul gives clear instructions to the Corinthian church that if a man and woman are divorced, they are to remain divorced from each other unless both parties come to repentance and decide to establish a new marriage covenant. This pattern is consistent with Paul's instruction to live righteously in one's current state; one cannot "fix" sin by "undoing" a sinful action or attempting to "do the right thing" afterwards.

    Paul also teaches that if a divorced person marries a different spouse, they are to honor the new marriage covenant. This teaching is often confused by people who reference Jesus telling the Pharisees that a divorcee who remarries commits adultery. It is important to note that Jesus was pointing out the hypocrisy of the Pharisee claim to a "righteous divorce" from a woman who otherwise upheld Mosaic law.

    The very clear teaching of scripture regarding marriage is that a believer must always attempt to honor their marriage vows as long their spouse (believer or unbeliever) is willing to do the same.


    _________________
    -Winston Crutchfield
    "The rational mind is dangerous; the Christian mind is devastating."
    http://criticalpressmedia.com
    Opposing Forces powered by Fate!

    mikel.withers

    Posts : 432
    Activity : 534
    Geek-Cred : 8
    Join date : 2014-10-27
    Location : Homer NY

    Re: celebrating getting married again

    Post  mikel.withers on July 1st 2015, 7:57 am

    Let me be clear, in maintaining the vows, I meant to exclude sex from the discussion as it is clearly wrong. However, pledges of brotherhood were common throughout most of history and would be very similar to a sexless same sex marriage.

    mindspike wrote:2) The marriage covenant established by God does not include homosexual relationships. Therefore, any homosexual marriage cannot break scriptural instruction by getting divorced. Nor can it gain scriptural legitimacy by establishing a marriage covenant. Homosexual marriage may legitimately be established by the state as a secular institution, but it has no place in orthodox Christian doctrine.
    In this case, same sex marriage, the problem would be with breaking a vow, not in breaking an illusory marriage. Even if it is just a civil contract, would it be right to renege on that?


    mindspike
    Admin

    Posts : 552
    Activity : 697
    Geek-Cred : 38
    Join date : 2010-08-24
    Age : 42
    Location : Evansville, IN

    Re: celebrating getting married again

    Post  mindspike on July 1st 2015, 8:39 am

    mikel.withers wrote:In this case the problem would be with breaking a vow. Would it be right to renege on that?

    The inconstancy of mankind is nowhere in scripture described as a sin, only the actions and intent. The story of Jephthah in Judges chapter 11 springs to mind as an example. In desiring a military victory, Jephthah vowed to God to sacrifice the first thing that emerged from his tent when he returned home. His daughter was the first to appear, and instead of repenting to God of making a foolish vow, Jephthah killed her.

    Jephthah's sin here is two-fold: man does not bargain with God; human sacrifice is abhorrent to God. Jephthah should have repented and sought forgiveness. Where a vow to a man made in good faith is broken, scripture describes it as an offense against one's neighbor (but not a sin against God), where reparation may be sought under the law. Where a vow to God is broken, scripture describes the vow itself as an expression of the sin of pride, where that sin lies both in the initial pledge and in its attempted fulfillment.


    _________________
    -Winston Crutchfield
    "The rational mind is dangerous; the Christian mind is devastating."
    http://criticalpressmedia.com
    Opposing Forces powered by Fate!

    mindspike
    Admin

    Posts : 552
    Activity : 697
    Geek-Cred : 38
    Join date : 2010-08-24
    Age : 42
    Location : Evansville, IN

    Re: celebrating getting married again

    Post  mindspike on July 1st 2015, 8:46 am

    Scriptural marriage is a curious case, as vows are exchanged both between the two spouses and by God towards the spouses. Hence, divorce is a legal offense against the injured spouse because it is a civil contract. Divorce is a theological offense because it denies God the opportunity to use the fulfillment of the marriage covenant to conform us to the likeness of Christ. An interesting corollary is that a marriage or divorce on the part of an unbeliever carries no weight of sin in this manner; it is only when sin in recognized (the purpose of Mosaic law) that sin may be imputed.


    _________________
    -Winston Crutchfield
    "The rational mind is dangerous; the Christian mind is devastating."
    http://criticalpressmedia.com
    Opposing Forces powered by Fate!

    mikel.withers

    Posts : 432
    Activity : 534
    Geek-Cred : 8
    Join date : 2014-10-27
    Location : Homer NY

    Re: celebrating getting married again

    Post  mikel.withers on July 1st 2015, 1:41 pm

    mindspike wrote:
    The inconstancy of mankind is nowhere in scripture described as a sin, only the actions and intent.

    mindspike wrote: Where a vow to a man made in good faith is broken, scripture describes it as an offense against one's neighbor (but not a sin against God), where reparation may be sought under the law.

    mindspike wrote: An interesting corollary is that a marriage or divorce on the part of an unbeliever carries no weight of sin in this manner; it is only when sin in recognized (the purpose of Mosaic law) that sin may be imputed.
    I wouldn't say it is "a" sin, but rather it is sin. Sin is anything less than perfection; any corruption, whatsoever, is sin. Besides, I'd say that when God talks about Israel turning away from Him to other gods, He is talking about their sin of inconstancy, or 'let your aye be aye and your nay be nay' would also fit into this category. As such, if one sins against one's neighbor, or commits an offense against him or her, they are sinning against God as well. It may be possible to sin against God but not against man, I'm not sure if even internal sinful thoughts might cause corruption of a relationship... but it is definitely not possible to sin against man and remain unsinful to God. The reparations of law, at that point, are about justice and repairing the relationship.
    As sin is corruption, imperfection, or lack an unbeliever absolutely sins when they divorce. Romans 1 talks about how the whole world is subject to God's wrath because of the clarity of His divine attributes in the world around them. The only possible exception would be a brute animal or an insensate human body, with no recourse to observing God's attributes... however, I highly doubt such a thing would be divorcing anyone.

    Sponsored content

    Re: celebrating getting married again

    Post  Sponsored content Today at 9:37 am


      Current date/time is December 10th 2016, 9:37 am