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    Death and the Garden of Eden

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    Rickster

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    Death and the Garden of Eden

    Post  Rickster on September 3rd 2010, 6:43 pm

    In the Bible God told Adam that if he eat of the fruit from the tree of knowledge of good and evil he would die Adam and eve did eat of the fruit and death came. Now was did eating of the fruit also cause the Animals to die? or was death already on the earth but the humans were free from death? Or did God mean a spirtitual death and not physical?

    UKSteve

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    Re: Death and the Garden of Eden

    Post  UKSteve on September 6th 2010, 12:01 pm

    You may have just worked out what really happened to the dinosaurs...

    Paeter
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    Re: Death and the Garden of Eden

    Post  Paeter on September 6th 2010, 1:05 pm

    From what little I've read on this topic, there seem to be at least two or more schools of thought, which depend on whether you take an old earth or a young earth stance on the creation account.

    Young Earthers are more likely to say that there was no death of any kind anywhere before Adam and Eve disobeyed. Old Earthers are more likely to say that the curse of death was only applied to Adam and Eve at that time, while the rest of creation already had death factored into its existence.

    That's all I got for now.


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    vagabond

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    Re: Death and the Garden of Eden

    Post  vagabond on September 6th 2010, 11:57 pm

    All I can say is that if there weren’t any animal deaths before the fall of man, God must have either altered His animal creations quite a bit or added a whole bunch of new ones after it happened. I mean if you look at a lion, or a shark, or a spider, they seem like they were pretty much built to hunt and kill. It’s hard for me to imagine they were ever designed to be anything but predators. Of course, that doesn’t mean it couldn’t have been. It’s a really good question.

    ProfessorAlan

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    Re: Death and the Garden of Eden

    Post  ProfessorAlan on September 7th 2010, 8:53 am

    I think it's unlikely to think there was NO DEATH in Eden. The animal food chain is a great part of creation, short-lived flies pollenating flowers, etc ... I don't know that those processes are part of the Fall, but I guess maybe ...

    Our definition of life includes plants & vegetables as being "alive" -- they grow, reproduce, etc ... Clearly, plants were eaten in Eden, so if they meet God's definition of "alive" then there was plant "death" in the Garden.

    I think the curse of the Fall was applying the concept of death to humans, not the introduction of death into a totally death-free environment.

    WhiteBoy
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    Re: Death and the Garden of Eden

    Post  WhiteBoy on September 8th 2010, 5:33 pm

    Great question and thoughts! Smile I've always thought about it as being no death. No disease, no sickness, no violence. The Bible talks about it being like this again in the Millennium. It talks about the lion laying down with the lamb, which is obviously totally opposite of what we see in a lion's nature now. I figure a lion's nature was very different before the Fall.

    Regarding the death of plants, I seem to remember the Bible referring to life being in the blood (sorry, I'm being lazy and didn't search for a reference) which is why plants are generally not considered alive.


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    Re: Death and the Garden of Eden

    Post  Hackmodford on October 8th 2010, 3:43 pm

    Actually the be more politically correct it's the "Wolf and the Lamb" it's in Isaiah somewhere (I'm being lazy right now)


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    Paeter
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    Re: Death and the Garden of Eden

    Post  Paeter on October 8th 2010, 3:47 pm

    Hackmodford wrote:Actually the be more politically correct it's the "Wolf and the Lamb" it's in Isaiah somewhere (I'm being lazy right now)

    Politically correct? You'll have to help me. I don't get it.


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    Hackmodford
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    Re: Death and the Garden of Eden

    Post  Hackmodford on October 8th 2010, 3:49 pm

    Paeter wrote:
    Hackmodford wrote:Actually the be more politically correct it's the "Wolf and the Lamb" it's in Isaiah somewhere (I'm being lazy right now)

    Politically correct? You'll have to help me. I don't get it.

    It was just a word that came out of my fingers...
    How about "to be more accurate and..."


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    Paeter
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    Re: Death and the Garden of Eden

    Post  Paeter on October 9th 2010, 12:29 am

    Hackmodford wrote:
    Paeter wrote:
    Hackmodford wrote:Actually the be more politically correct it's the "Wolf and the Lamb" it's in Isaiah somewhere (I'm being lazy right now)

    Politically correct? You'll have to help me. I don't get it.

    It was just a word that came out of my fingers...
    How about "to be more accurate and..."

    Okey doke. Yeah, all kinds of animals will be hangin' out. Easy to get the pairings mixed up. I thought it was the lion and the lamb, too. Just goes to show what absorbing Christian pop music via osmosis can do. ;-)

    Isaiah 11:6- And the wolf will dwell with the lamb, And the leopard will lie down with the young goat, And the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; And a little boy will lead them.

    Isaiah 65:25- "The wolf and the lamb will graze together, and the lion will eat straw like the ox; and dust will be the serpent's food. They will do no evil or harm in all My holy mountain," says the LORD.


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    WhiteBoy
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    Re: Death and the Garden of Eden

    Post  WhiteBoy on November 14th 2010, 2:16 am

    I never did respond, but...good call. I think it's funny when that happens..especially when it's me that did it. Smile

    I stumbled across this related article that I thought was interesting - http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/2010/11/02/second-law-of-thermodynamics . Enjoy.

    Edit: They also have this one that addresses the topic more directly - http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/2010/03/02/satan-the-fall-good-evil-could-death-exist-before-sin .


    Last edited by WhiteBoy on November 16th 2010, 7:00 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : trying to remove the . from the link)


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    Paeter
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    Re: Death and the Garden of Eden

    Post  Paeter on November 15th 2010, 6:42 pm

    WhiteBoy wrote:I never did respond, but...good call. I think it's funny when that happens..especially when it's me that did it. Smile

    I stumbled across this related article that I thought was interesting - http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/2010/11/02/second-law-of-thermodynamics. Enjoy.

    Edit: They also have this one that addresses the topic more directly - http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/2010/03/02/satan-the-fall-good-evil-could-death-exist-before-sin.

    Hmm. I'm getting AiG pages with no articles when I use those links...

    Just a lot of blank space surrounded by their logos, links etc.


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    CreatorsPixels

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    Re: Death and the Garden of Eden

    Post  CreatorsPixels on November 15th 2010, 9:49 pm

    AiG does have alot of content on this subject, just do a search on "sin" and or "death". I did find this article which had some interesting stuff in it. http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/2010/03/02/satan-the-fall-good-evil-could-death-exist-before-sin As for the other links, I think if you remove the "." at the end they will work.

    While it does seem hard to belive that Adam never stepped on an ant or something, I think the main point is that animals weren't killing each other. They were all vegiterian... "Genesis 1:29-30 (New International Version)

    29 Then God said, “I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food. 30 And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds in the sky and all the creatures that move along the ground—everything that has the breath of life in it—I give every green plant for food.” And it was so. " This part really isn't hard to belive and is quite possible. Many animals now have large sharp teeth and eat fruit and veggies. Its just the constant hummm of public media that makes us question that.

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    Re: Death and the Garden of Eden

    Post  WhiteBoy on November 16th 2010, 7:03 pm

    Thanks for the tip. I have edited my post to put a space between the link and the period.


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