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    I am one with the Force.

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    mindspike
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    I am one with the Force.

    Post  mindspike on December 19th 2016, 2:08 pm

    Chirrut Imwe is not a Jedi. He is a monk who seeks to find the Force through enlightenment.

    This guy is dead on. In a world where some people have demonstrable super powers through their religion, it makes perfect sense to me that ordinary folk would try so very hard to be a part of that world. The tools of the carnal mind have always been rote repetition and ritual. Why should space religion be any different? What does that say about the perception of religion in general. I have a thought here, but it's only half-formed. I'd like some more insight.


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    jazzact13

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    Re: I am one with the Force.

    Post  jazzact13 on December 19th 2016, 3:09 pm

    I guess you're talking about a character in Rogue One. I haven't seen it yet, but hope to soon.

    Is the idea that the Force is more than just midichlorines? That accessing and manipulating the Force is about more then just how many strange micro-organisms are in a person's body? That the Force might actually have a personality, a will, and isn't just an inanimate thing that can't be seen?

    The notion of there being more than one or two ways of viewing the Force was explored a little in some of the now-defunct stories, mostly in a few of Zahn's books.

    But that also brings up some problems, too. It's basically based on the idea of what a person can do to access this power, whatever they may call it. It becomes a kind of law, where the god or force or whatever stays just out of reach until the person does things well enough to get the reward.

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    Re: I am one with the Force.

    Post  jazzact13 on December 19th 2016, 9:22 pm

    Finally saw the movie, not long after putting that first reply.

    If I understand it right, the idea of the Force is something Lucas got from eastern religious ideas and mysticism, or at least his perceptions of them. Guess it makes some sense, then, that a character much like a monk from an eastern religion would fit into the SW universe.

    But it not something solely limited to eastern religions. I remember when I used to play D&D, I had a fondness for playing clerical characters, maybe because so many of the others played fighters and they needed someone to keep them healthy. But how their powers worked was by essentially petitioning their patron deity in the game for powers to use. And the more one leveled up, or the strong one got, the more powers that character could use.

    And the Christian church has been infected with that way of thinking, too. If you look at the rhetoric behinds such things as 24-7 prayer and forms of continuous worship, there is the idea that if Christians will do those things, then God will do some very powerful and very special.

    For the church, the truth needs to be pounded into our heads that the Spirit is the one who distributes gifts as He chooses, that the Bible gives us no hint that we are able to earn the right to gain any gift from Him. In the church, there is a heirarchy of leadership, yet no one person, no matter their leadership position, has a special access to the Father that all those under him do not have.
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    mikel.withers

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    Re: I am one with the Force.

    Post  mikel.withers on December 20th 2016, 9:29 am

    Was he an ordinary person, though?
    My understanding is that they were protectors of some form of Jedi/Force temple.
    While he may not have been a Jedi, what would Anakin have been if he hadn't been initiated into the Padawan Program?

    If you want to go to D&D, isn't there some top level spell (from the old school) where you sacrifice yourself for a "heroic" outcome? I know that a couple other game systems had something like that, including the old pre-Wizards White Wolf system.


    Personally, I'm always hesitant to read too much Christianity into fictional religions. (Including Man of Steel) To me focusing on the similarities without also acknowledging the differences leads to syncretism and a bastardization of the truth.

    Having said that, I really liked his character, and, while fantastical, I thought he "read true".

    As for rote repetition and ritual, they do have application outside of a religious world. My mind wanders. Constantly. I have an anxiety disorder, and if my mind isn't focused on something...well, there is no telling where it will take me.
    When I was in high school I was a discus thrower and shot putter. For discus, I would repeat "The way, the weather, the means, leadership, discipline" which was my own take on Sun Tzu's five focuses of a good general. Granted, to my way of thinking the way meant all the practice I had put into throwing, not the Dao, but like I said, it was my take on it.
    Anyway, that kept my mind on the task at hand, and away from all my worries and anxieties and the fact that I was in front of hundreds of people.
    Now, for shot put, I'd do the opposite, and focus on all those "negative" emotions and cares, which opened my fight-or-flight response and flooded my system with adrenaline. Which, when you are simply hefting a heavy metal ball, comes in handy. I'd get myself as close to a mindless rage/terror as possible.
    Religion? No, just physiological responses to stimulae, although, I can see how berserkers and their analogs could work themselves into a state of not caring what happened to them, and how that could seem to be a religious experience to those who didn't understand what was going on.
    Anyway, all that to say... I can see how Imwe might have been focusing his mind on the Force, rather than calling upon it. If that was the pattern that he went into in order to feel the Force, which they established throughout, then -in that situation where focus might be a tad difficult- it would make sense that he would use it to direct his mind.
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    Paeter
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    Re: I am one with the Force.

    Post  Paeter on December 20th 2016, 9:58 am

    mindspike wrote:Chirrut Imwe is not a Jedi. He is a monk who seeks to find the Force through enlightenment.

    This guy is dead on. In a world where some people have demonstrable super powers through their religion, it makes perfect sense to me that ordinary folk would try so very hard to be a part of that world. The tools of the carnal mind have always been rote repetition and ritual. Why should space religion be any different? What does that say about the perception of religion in general. I have a thought here, but it's only half-formed. I'd like some more insight.

    Regarding the perception of religion in general, that's tough to nail down. The pure atheistic camp is going to view all religions largely the same and in a negative light. But the post-modern pop-spiritualist will probably favor less organized (specifically authority structures) religions that focus on self-empowerment in a favorable light. And that's what this seems to be an example of. The monk had self-sacrificial motives and also seemed to be aided by the force (walking through blasts unharmed) as he followed those motives. He also was self-empowering at the time.

    So those are the "religious" elements that I think are attractive to large audiences that are exemplified here. Selfless action and self-empowerment, both operating on their own terms, unchecked by a higher authority or standard than the one they create for themselves.


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