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    Ghosts,are they real?

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    SpiritWalker72

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    Ghosts,are they real?

    Post  SpiritWalker72 on August 3rd 2011, 10:37 pm

    I would like to see what everyone thinks about the possibilties of there being ghosts.If you believe they exist.Then why do they exist?Shouldnt they be in Heaven or Hell?

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    Re: Ghosts,are they real?

    Post  Hackmodford on August 4th 2011, 9:59 am

    Oooh... Super interesting... You know I'm not exactly sure where I stand on this.

    Are they spirits of people dead? Or are they just demons impersonating people?

    My favorite theory is that we can leave an emotional imprint on the surrounding area...

    i.e. this person committed suicide. They did it and there was an extreme amount of emotion linked tot his area on the cliffside. Now when someone goes they they will unexpectedly feel the urge to jump or the persons emotional imprint.

    I don't know... it's a cool theory.


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    Re: Ghosts,are they real?

    Post  WhiteBoy on August 4th 2011, 9:59 am

    In short, I believe they don't exist. I do believe that there are supernatural creatures that people see, but I don't believe they are the lost spirits/souls of people. I believe when we die we are immediately in heaven or hell. I think the creatures people see are manifestations and apparitions presented by fallen angels (aka demons and/or possibly even Lucifer himself) probably with the intent to deceive or confuse.

    The Bible does warn about not trying to communicate with the dead. I don't know that it is because it's a real possibility or just that it involves dealing with demonic forces which will deceive you into *thinking* you're communicating with the dead. My tendency is to believe the later.

    Great question... I'm interested to hear others' opinions.

    Edit: Interesting theory, Hackmodford. You sneaked your post in JUST before mine. Smile


    Last edited by WhiteBoy on August 4th 2011, 10:02 am; edited 1 time in total


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    Re: Ghosts,are they real?

    Post  Hackmodford on August 4th 2011, 10:02 am

    What about the Whitch of Endor in the Bible? (sounds like it came straight out of star wars alien )

    She calls upon the spirit of Samuel I believe. Was that really him or not?

    Also I don't believe that as soon as we die we're immediately one place or another. Aren't we "sleeping" until the judgement day? Granted it probably feels immediate because your asleep and then you wake up. Or are we outside of time so it really has no meaning at that point?


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    Re: Ghosts,are they real?

    Post  WhiteBoy on August 4th 2011, 10:12 am

    Hackmodford wrote:What about the Whitch of Endor in the Bible? (sounds like it came straight out of star wars alien )

    She calls upon the spirit of Samuel I believe. Was that really him or not?

    Hehe... yeah, I've noticed that reference to Endor in Star Wars. Ya know, there were some "witches" in Star Wars, but I'm pretty sure they weren't from Endor. Smile

    I need to go back and read the passage again to really answer you for sure, but my initial thought would be it wasn't really him. I know there are some very real supernatural powers that is possible to use, but I don't believe we have supernatural powers within ourselves. It either comes from God or the devil.

    Also I don't believe that as soon as we die we're immediately one place or another. Aren't we "sleeping" until the judgement day? Granted it probably feels immediate because your asleep and then you wake up. Or are we outside of time so it really has no meaning at that point?

    I believe "sleeping" in the Bible is just a euphemism for being dead; I don't believe our souls are sleeping. The only thing I can think of off the top of my head is the passage about Lazarus and the rich man. The rich man was already in torment and asking God to send Lazarus back to witness to his family.


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    Re: Ghosts,are they real?

    Post  Hackmodford on August 4th 2011, 10:14 am

    good point... so it I would think it works like this.

    1) You die
    2) Your immediately at "judgement"
    3) You either go to heaven or hell

    So you basically skip the whole time period.

    I think this because in revelations it says that he raises the people to be judged. so they were already dead and haven't gone anywhere...

    Then there are those that have the theory that Hell is just a temporary holding place until you get to the Lake of Fire.


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    Re: Ghosts,are they real?

    Post  WhiteBoy on August 4th 2011, 10:32 am

    Hackmodford wrote:good point... so it I would think it works like this.

    1) You die
    2) Your immediately at "judgement"
    3) You either go to heaven or hell

    So you basically skip the whole time period.

    I think this because in revelations it says that he raises the people to be judged. so they were already dead and haven't gone anywhere...

    Man... really wishing I wasn't at work right now so I could spend some time looking up some Scripture. I always like to double-check myself and be as sure as I can before I say things. Smile

    I think it works like this:
    1) You die
    2) Your spirit goes to heaven or hell
    3) Bodies of those in Christ are raised and we are given new, eternal bodies
    4) Great White Throne Judgement (judgment of the lost): lost spirits are cast into the lake of fire. Satan and demons are cast into the lake, too.
    5) Judgement Seat of Christ (judgement of the works of the saved): rewards given, which we then give to Christ

    Trying to not get off topic by including too much, and only include things relative.

    Then there are those that have the theory that Hell is just a temporary holding place until you get to the Lake of Fire.

    Hmmm... I consider them both to be Hell, but I would agree that there are two different things. The Lake of Fire doesn't seem to come into play until the judgement. Maybe they're two different sections of Hell?


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    Re: Ghosts,are they real?

    Post  Paeter on August 4th 2011, 5:27 pm

    WhiteBoy wrote:In short, I believe they don't exist. I do believe that there are supernatural creatures that people see, but I don't believe they are the lost spirits/souls of people. I believe when we die we are immediately in heaven or hell. I think the creatures people see are manifestations and apparitions presented by fallen angels (aka demons and/or possibly even Lucifer himself) probably with the intent to deceive or confuse.

    The Bible does warn about not trying to communicate with the dead. I don't know that it is because it's a real possibility or just that it involves dealing with demonic forces which will deceive you into *thinking* you're communicating with the dead. My tendency is to believe the later.

    I think this represents my position pretty well. You'll notice that the witch freaks out when she sees Samuel and demands to know who Saul is. I think it's possible she was a scam artist or had interacted with supernatural forces other than actual spirits of humans, and this experience was so much more "real" that it caught her off guard. I believe it was really Samuel and that God allowed him to talk to Saul for specific reasons, but this kind of scenario is likely unique.

    Y'know, except for when Isaiah talked to Vincent and Merikk in Spirit Blade. ;-)

    As for the "soul sleep" question, I'd need some time to look up and present supporting scripture, but my position is that our souls do not enter into stasis of any kind after death, but go either immediately to the presence of Christ (as with the thief on the cross with Jesus) or Sheol-Hades, which could be loosely referred to as "Hell" but is not the same as the final "Lake Of Fire" judgment.


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    Re: Ghosts,are they real?

    Post  Guest on August 6th 2011, 9:23 am

    WhiteBoy wrote:Hehe... yeah, I've noticed that reference to Endor in Star Wars. Ya know, there were some "witches" in Star Wars, but I'm pretty sure they weren't from Endor. :

    "Beware the witches of Dathomir."

    Anyway, on the ghost question, a bit too freaky for me. I have encountered phenomenon that people qualify as ghosts, and that's just fine with me. It's fun for stories, and I'm sure those people who like recording strange voices from out of no where get a thrill of some kind. I don't know what to make of it, but I feel most comfortable keeping my distance. I'm a bit of a chicken. Bawk bawk.

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    hmmm

    Post  SpiritWalker72 on August 6th 2011, 11:33 pm

    If they are not ghosts of dead people,and are really just angels or demons,dont you think they would do more than just sneak around peoples houses making odd noises and footsteps and voices?

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    Re: Ghosts,are they real?

    Post  Hackmodford on August 8th 2011, 9:32 am

    I for one would love to go on one of those "ghost hunts"

    Heck I'd spend the night in a haunted house Very Happy


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    Re: Ghosts,are they real?

    Post  mindspike on August 8th 2011, 1:22 pm

    The following text is quoted from gotquestions.org in its entirety. The original article may be found here.
    http://www.gotquestions.org/ghosts-hauntings.html

    Question: "What does the Bible say about ghosts / hauntings?"

    Answer: Is there such a thing as ghosts? The answer to this question depends on what precisely is meant by the term “ghosts.” If the term means “spirit beings,” the answer is a qualified “yes.” If the term means “spirits of people who have died,” the answer is “no.” The Bible makes it abundantly clear that there are spirit beings, both good and evil. But the Bible negates the idea that the spirits of deceased human beings can remain on earth and “haunt” the living.

    Hebrews 9:27 declares, “Man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment.” That is what happens to a person’s soul-spirit after death—judgment. The result of this judgment is heaven for the believer (2 Corinthians 5:6-8; Philippians 1:23) and hell for the unbeliever (Matthew 25:46; Luke 16:22-24). There is no in-between. There is no possibility of remaining on earth in spirit form as a “ghost.” If there are such things as ghosts, according to the Bible, they absolutely cannot be the disembodied spirits of deceased human beings.

    The Bible teaches very clearly that there are indeed spirit beings who can connect with and appear in our physical world. The Bible identifies these beings as angels and demons. Angels are spirit beings who are faithful in serving God. Angels are righteous, good, and holy. Demons are fallen angels, angels who rebelled against God. Demons are evil, deceptive, and destructive. According to 2 Corinthians 11:14-15, demons masquerade as “angels of light” and as “servants of righteousness.” Appearing as a “ghost” and impersonating a deceased human being definitely seem to be within the power and abilities that demons possess.

    The closest biblical example of a “haunting” is found in Mark 5:1-20. A legion of demons possessed a man and used the man to haunt a graveyard. There were no ghosts involved. It was a case of a normal person being controlled by demons to terrorize the people of that area. Demons only seek to “kill, steal, and destroy” (John 10:10). They will do anything within their power to deceive people, to lead people away from God. This is very likely the explanation of “ghostly” activity today. Whether it is called a ghost, a ghoul, or a poltergeist, if there is genuine evil spiritual activity occurring, it is the work of demons.

    What about instances in which “ghosts” act in “positive” ways? What about psychics who claim to summon the deceased and gain true and useful information from them? Again, it is crucial to remember that the goal of demons is to deceive. If the result is that people trust in a psychic instead of God, a demon will be more than willing to reveal true information. Even good and true information, if from a source with evil motives, can be used to mislead, corrupt, and destroy.

    Interest in the paranormal is becoming increasingly common. There are individuals and businesses that claim to be “ghost-hunters,” who for a price will rid your home of ghosts. Psychics, séances, tarot cards, and mediums are increasingly considered normal. Human beings are innately aware of the spiritual world. Sadly, instead of seeking the truth about the spirit world by communing with God and studying His Word, many people allow themselves to be led astray by the spirit world. The demons surely laugh at the spiritual mass-deception that exists in the world today.

    Recommended Resource: The Truth Behind Ghosts, Mediums, and Psychic Phenomena by Ron Rhodes.


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    Re: Ghosts,are they real?

    Post  Hackmodford on August 8th 2011, 1:27 pm

    I just had another interesting thought. Clearly the early christians (probably not all) believed in "ghosts" because when Paul and Silas got out of prison and went to their friends house the servant said that they were ghosts...


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    Re: Ghosts,are they real?

    Post  Paeter on August 8th 2011, 4:01 pm

    SpiritWalker72 wrote:If they are not ghosts of dead people,and are really just angels or demons,dont you think they would do more than just sneak around peoples houses making odd noises and footsteps and voices?

    I'd agree that in and of itself, bumping and thumping doesn't seem to have much purpose. But demons are incredibly deceptive. I'd think they'd have much less interest in us believing they are "scary" and more interest in us believing they are dead people, because to do so means we have to assume the Bible is incorrect in its teaching about the fate of humans after death. Casting doubt on what is true would be the demon's goal, which it achieves in a frighteningly clever and indirect way.

    Demons are also under God's thumb, and he only allows them to do what fits his ultimate plan. (See the beginning of the book of Job for an example, or Legion's conversation with Jesus in Mark 5) They might LOVE to do more to directly deceive, but God keeps them restrained to a degree.


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    Re: Ghosts,are they real?

    Post  SpiritWalker72 on August 9th 2011, 2:10 pm

    Ghost of dead people seem like they must exist because of verses such as Matthew 14:26 Mark 6:49 Luke 24:37 and the best one to me is Luke 24:39.How would you explain Luke 24:39?

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    Re: Ghosts,are they real?

    Post  Hackmodford on August 9th 2011, 2:45 pm

    Another one is
    Acts 12:15
    But they said to her, "You've lost your mind!" But she kept insisting that it was Peter, and they kept saying, "It is his angel!"

    They think Peter is a Ghost affraid

    While these examples don't "prove" the existence of ghost, I believe, they at least prove that the concept was in pop-culture.


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    Re: Ghosts,are they real?

    Post  WhiteBoy on August 9th 2011, 3:22 pm

    I agree that these seem to prove that some believed in ghosts more than they actually existed. An interesting thought, however, is *who* is believing in ghosts. In the one case it's the disciples, and in the other it's believers who are praying for Peter. I know many believed in life after death, but I think it was mostly looking forward to resurrection. If I remember correctly (risky bet), one of the differences in Pharisees and Sadducees was that the Sadducees didn't believe in life after death. But the general population did.

    Regarding the Luke 24:37 and 39 passage, I'm not really sure what you're getting at. This is talking about Jesus after He was resurrected, so it's talking about a physical person rather than a ghost. Maybe you're referring to His vanishing in front of them like a ghost would. He also walked through a locked door to appear before the disciples after His resurrection (John 20). So my thoughts on this are 1) He's God, so He can do anything, and (in case that's not enough) 2) this was after His resurrection so He was in His glorified body and who knows what we will be able to do in our glorified bodies or even if His glorified body is like ours will be.


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    Re: Ghosts,are they real?

    Post  Hackmodford on August 9th 2011, 3:29 pm

    Here's a good video that kinda explained how some of the feats Jesus did might be possible (though the video isn't intended for said purpose)



    Also imagine this is Smith from the matrix talking to you Cool


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    Re: Ghosts,are they real?

    Post  WhiteBoy on August 9th 2011, 5:08 pm

    Interesting video. It reminds me of another video I've seen about multiple dimensions, but that's off topic for this thread. I may post it in another thread.

    And yes... he does sound like Agent Smith. Smile


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    Re: Ghosts,are they real?

    Post  mindspike on August 9th 2011, 9:37 pm

    SpiritWalker72 wrote:Ghost of dead people seem like they must exist because of verses such as Matthew 14:26 Mark 6:49 Luke 24:37 and the best one to me is Luke 24:39.How would you explain Luke 24:39?
    The passages in Matthew and Mark both refer to Jesus walking on the water. Although it says the disciples believed they saw a ghost, this belief is not evidence of the existence of a ghost.

    The passage in Luke seems to imply the existence of a ghost due to Jesus statement that "a ghost does not have flesh and blood". The Bible clearly states that every human possesses a soul - a spiritual element which continues to exist after the death of the physical body. It is to this spiritual element that Jesus refers. Neither Jesus' testimony nor the disciples' belief constitutes evidence of the existence of ghosts - when defined as the spirits of dead people who continue to interact with the living.





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    Re: Ghosts,are they real?

    Post  SpiritWalker72 on August 9th 2011, 10:05 pm

    I guess what im trying to get at is,Jesus didnt say of course im not a ghost,ghost dont exist.He said feel my hands,and see for yourself that im not a ghost.

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    Re: Ghosts,are they real?

    Post  WhiteBoy on August 10th 2011, 9:50 am

    Derp... I knew I was missing something. I was reading 27 and 29. Sad Interesting that I thought of His appearances to the disciples, but looked up a different passage accounting it. Sorry about any confusion.

    I agree with what mindspike said. On a side note... One thing I noticed that in this passage the word is translated "spirit" instead of "ghost" like the other others. I wonder if they're different words in the Greek or if it's the translators trying to clarify.


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    Re: Ghosts,are they real?

    Post  Paeter on August 10th 2011, 12:52 pm

    SpiritWalker72 wrote:I guess what im trying to get at is,Jesus didnt say of course im not a ghost,ghost dont exist.He said feel my hands,and see for yourself that im not a ghost.

    That's true. These words of Jesus don't invalidate the existence of human spirits roaming the earth among the living. But I still have trouble reconciling the view of human spirits roaming earth after death with how the Bible treats the subject. With the rare exception of events like Samuel and the Witch of Endor, which seem uniquely orchestrated by God, death is treated as something that completely removes us from the living. For example:

    Luke 16:19-31, Luke 23:43

    Might it be possible by a stretch of biblical interpretation to allow for the existence of earthbound spirits? I don't know. It might be possible, though I don't know of a good argument for it. And when pursuing truth and developing my personal belief positions, I aim for more than what is simply possible, but what is plausible, or likely to be true.

    In this case, I consider the existence of earthbound human spirits after death to be so unlikely as to not warrant consideration outside of suspending disbelief to enjoy fantasy or horror fiction.



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    Re: Ghosts,are they real?

    Post  hvymtlcowboy on August 26th 2011, 11:09 am

    Personally, I believe they are just evil spiritual beings that exist in a dimension normally unseen by the human eye. I believe that most of that realm is occupied by malevolent spirits that are the minions of Lucifer whose sole purpose is to make us as humans doubt the validity of God's Word. As Paeter said, trusting in the psychic they fail to trust in God. I have heard the theory that they are the spirits of the Nephilim (the offspring of one of the fallen angels and a woman) this theory is said to be supported by the book of Enoch, which is not recognized by most churches as canon (accepted as undeniably inspired by God). I haven't read the Book of Enoch, but my publisher is one of the people that has penned a translation of it.( http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1933580801/karateforchri-20 )( and you can get more info about him at http://fifthestatepub.com .)
    Anyway, the way I understood it was that the Nephilim couldn't die until Judgement, their bodies could be destroyed but not their spirits. Thus they became the type of demons that would possess people.
    I had actually thought about doing some YouTube videos about how the Supernatural things fit into a Christian Worldview. I would do this in the abundance of spare time that I have. --wink wink--grin.
    Thats just my take on Ghosts.

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    Re: Ghosts,are they real?

    Post  Hackmodford on August 26th 2011, 11:22 am

    The book of Enoch is one AWSESOME read...

    It's actually quoted in scriptures by Jude

    The only thing that made me think it wasn't canon was there was one part where they essentially made an "idol" to God and I thought WHAT? That aint right... God hates images of gods and images of himself...

    But the book was cool and felt like an awesome Sci-Fi Fantasy read...


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