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    Twilight Fans Here?

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    Paeter
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    Twilight Fans Here?

    Post  Paeter on November 17th 2012, 2:39 pm

    Any Twilight fans here? I'm not a fan myself, but I'd be interested in hearing a fan talk about the movies and/or the books now that the film series is complete. I may not like sparkling vampires myself, but I'm happy to give a voice to those who do and let them celebrate a series they love as much as anyone else!

    If you're a fan and have thoughts or a review on the movies/books, post them here and I may use them on the show!


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    Re: Twilight Fans Here?

    Post  mindspike on November 18th 2012, 3:12 pm

    I am actually a huge fan of the series... and don't stone me before I speak my piece.

    The Twilight Sage (books and movies both) are a perfect example of everything that you are supposed to avoid in good storytelling.

    The relationships are dramatically ... fantastically ... unhealthy, stemming from obsessively selfish behavior and leading only to justification and rationalization of that behavior, with no measurable character growth.

    The plot (such as it is) is driven by hormonal expression and the need to voyeuristically observe those things in which the readers cannot participate. Plot points arise from the need for the characters to express their feelings and indulge their passions, from the rebellion against the vampire council, to the pursuit of the illicit relationships, to ... well, that's about all that happens. Rebellion and hormones.

    The mythology is confused and inconsistent, with a clumsy attempt to use vampires and werewolves not as the traditional stand-ins for disease and sexuality (an attempt I applaud, even if the execution failed) but as metaphor for all of society, subcultures, and violence. There are no rules governing how these creatures behave or what their powers are, and there is not a consistent presentation of them to serve a literary function.

    In fact, the whole thing is far too much like high school. Which might be why it has sold so well.

    Yes indeed. Much can be learned from Twilight. The first lessons of which are:
    1) voyeurism sells, and always has
    2) good sales do not make a good story
    3) get an editor


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    Re: Twilight Fans Here?

    Post  tmorrill on November 18th 2012, 6:16 pm

    I love and hate the way you toy with my emotions like you just did Mindspike.

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    Re: Twilight Fans Here?

    Post  Nathan James Norman on November 18th 2012, 7:35 pm

    mindspike wrote:I am actually a huge fan of the series... and don't stone me before I speak my piece.

    The Twilight Sage (books and movies both) are a perfect example of everything that you are supposed to avoid in good storytelling.

    The relationships are dramatically ... fantastically ... unhealthy, stemming from obsessively selfish behavior and leading only to justification and rationalization of that behavior, with no measurable character growth.

    The plot (such as it is) is driven by hormonal expression and the need to voyeuristically observe those things in which the readers cannot participate. Plot points arise from the need for the characters to express their feelings and indulge their passions, from the rebellion against the vampire council, to the pursuit of the illicit relationships, to ... well, that's about all that happens. Rebellion and hormones.

    The mythology is confused and inconsistent, with a clumsy attempt to use vampires and werewolves not as the traditional stand-ins for disease and sexuality (an attempt I applaud, even if the execution failed) but as metaphor for all of society, subcultures, and violence. There are no rules governing how these creatures behave or what their powers are, and there is not a consistent presentation of them to serve a literary function.

    In fact, the whole thing is far too much like high school. Which might be why it has sold so well.

    Yes indeed. Much can be learned from Twilight. The first lessons of which are:
    1) voyeurism sells, and always has
    2) good sales do not make a good story
    3) get an editor

    Yes! And thank you!

    I'm not a fan of the series either, but I know one of the actors, so I've been going to the films (although I haven't seen the final installment yet). I remember describing "Breaking Dawn: Part 1" like this: Nothing happens, nothing happens, nothing happens, why are they showing me these scenes, nothing happens, nothing happens . . . and then boom! Stomach explode, Ramen noodles go everywhere, blood, blood, gore, gore . . . what in the world did I just watch?!

    Oh well. I'd love to hear a counterpoint about the series from someone who likes it.

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    Re: Twilight Fans Here?

    Post  Rickster on November 19th 2012, 12:56 am

    Nathan James Norman wrote:

    Yes! And thank you!

    I'm not a fan of the series either, but I know one of the actors, so I've been going to the films (although I haven't seen the final installment yet). I remember describing "Breaking Dawn: Part 1" like this: Nothing happens, nothing happens, nothing happens, why are they showing me these scenes, nothing happens, nothing happens . . . and then boom! Stomach explode, Ramen noodles go everywhere, blood, blood, gore, gore . . . what in the world did I just watch?!

    Oh well. I'd love to hear a counterpoint about the series from someone who likes it.

    I read the books because a girl I like was into them but I felt like the last book was 900+ where nothing happen. It was like whe wolves are going to attack the wolves are going to attack and it never happens.

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    Re: Twilight Fans Here?

    Post  Drew.Rub on November 19th 2012, 8:09 am

    Vampires.
    Do.
    Not.
    Sparkle.


    EVER!!!!!!


    No, I'm not a fan. For all the same reasons that Mindspike has already pointed out, most especially the poor portrayal of apparently acceptable social behavior (obsession, selfishness, et al).

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    Re: Twilight Fans Here?

    Post  Guest on November 19th 2012, 4:40 pm

    Drew.Rub wrote:Vampires.
    Do.
    Not.
    Sparkle.


    EVER!!!!!!

    ...well...actually, from what it sounds like, in these books apparently they do! Wink :innocent:
    A whole generation have experienced this depiction of vampires as (one of?) the most ubiquitous interpretations of what vampires are. I wonder if that means it will roll back around that way 20-30 years from now? Laughing

    No, I'm not a fan. For all the same reasons that Mindspike has already pointed out, most especially the poor portrayal of apparently acceptable social behavior (obsession, selfishness, et al).

    Er...do you mean it portrays social behavior such as selfishness and obsession ineffectively? Or...it's a very accurate depiction of such social behavior...? Razz Out of curiosity, do the books create a responsible and/or realistic frame of reference for the benefits or negative consequences of acting obsessively or selfishly? scratch

    Another point of curiosity, are the selfishness and obsession ever dealt with from the standpoint of counseling or psychiatric diagnosis and treatment?

    Apparently I haven't read these books. :shrug:

    I like mindspike's approach, finding use for something that on the surface doesn't seem to have any redeeming value, so to speak.

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    Re: Twilight Fans Here?

    Post  Drew.Rub on November 19th 2012, 4:54 pm

    Desert Kris wrote:
    Drew.Rub wrote:Vampires.
    Do.
    Not.
    Sparkle.


    EVER!!!!!!

    ...well...actually, from what it sounds like, in these books apparently they do! Wink :innocent:
    A whole generation have experienced this depiction of vampires as (one of?) the most ubiquitous interpretations of what vampires are. I wonder if that means it will roll back around that way 20-30 years from now?
    Vampires should burn, or dust, or die in some other violent manner. Not sparkle. We're supposed to be afraid of vampires, not falling in love with their sparkly little "Euro-trash" selves (Geek-points to anyone who catches the very vague reference).

    Desert Kris wrote:
    Drew.Rub wrote:No, I'm not a fan. For all the same reasons that Mindspike has already pointed out, most especially the poor portrayal of apparently acceptable social behavior (obsession, selfishness, et al).

    Er...do you mean it portrays social behavior such as selfishness and obsession ineffectively? Or...it's a very accurate depiction of such social behavior...? Razz

    Sorry, I guess I should have clarified. It's a poor statement on society that the behaviors of selfishness and obsession are portrayed in this movie as if they are acceptable norms. While there are some obsessions that can lead to good behaviors, I'm pretty sure the patterns portrayed in Twilight are negative behaviors.


    Desert Kris wrote:Out of curiosity, do the books create a responsible and/or realistic frame of reference for the benefits or negative consequences of acting obsessively or selfishly?


    To be honest and fair, I have not seen the movies or read the books. That personal choice was made after hearing/reading various reviews and talking with some other people that I trust that had seen/read the stories. I guess at almost 40 years old, I have opted not to subject myself to reliving teen drama. had enough of that when I was a teen, don't want more.



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    Re: Twilight Fans Here?

    Post  Guest on November 19th 2012, 5:23 pm

    Drew.Rub wrote:
    Desert Kris wrote:
    Drew.Rub wrote:Vampires.
    Do.
    Not.
    Sparkle.


    EVER!!!!!!

    ...well...actually, from what it sounds like, in these books apparently they do! Wink :innocent:
    A whole generation have experienced this depiction of vampires as (one of?) the most ubiquitous interpretations of what vampires are. I wonder if that means it will roll back around that way 20-30 years from now?
    Vampires should burn, or dust, or die in some other violent manner. Not sparkle. We're supposed to be afraid of vampires, not falling in love with their sparkly little "Euro-trash" selves (Geek-points to anyone who catches the very vague reference).

    Sounds like John Carpenters Vampires...? Something about, "[Vampires] are not romantic; they don't go around wearing rented formal and seducing people with trashy Euro-accents." That's all I can think of. If anything, Twilight and Interview With the Vampire are almost worth having around in order to justify great subversive lines like that (Interview more so, Twilight perhaps to a lesser degree). Of course, you're also talking about vampires going dust (most dramatically with Buffy) and violently (which can only make me think of Lost Boys: "Death by stereo!")

    Lost Boys is still my favorite go-to film for vampires.

    Sorry, I guess I should have clarified. It's a poor statement on society that the behaviors of selfishness and obsession are portrayed in this movie as if they are acceptable norms. While there are some obsessions that can lead to good behaviors, I'm pretty sure the patterns portrayed in Twilight are negative behaviors.

    I was being facetious...obsessive...! Wink

    Drew.Rub wrote:To be honest and fair, I have not seen the movies or read the books. That personal choice was made after hearing/reading various reviews and talking with some other people that I trust that had seen/read the stories. I guess at almost 40 years old, I have opted not to subject myself to reliving teen drama. had enough of that when I was a teen, don't want more.

    I think I can empathize.

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    Re: Twilight Fans Here?

    Post  Drew.Rub on November 19th 2012, 6:46 pm

    Desert Kris wrote:Sounds like John Carpenters Vampires...? Something about, "[Vampires] are not romantic; they don't go around wearing rented formal and seducing people with trashy Euro-accents." That's all I can think of. If anything, Twilight and Interview With the Vampire are almost worth having around in order to justify great subversive lines like that (Interview more so, Twilight perhaps to a lesser degree). Of course, you're also talking about vampires going dust (most dramatically with Buffy) and violently (which can only make me think of Lost Boys: "Death by stereo!")

    Lost Boys is still my favorite go-to film for vampires.

    JC's "Vampires" was the source for my mangled quote. You got the geek-cred. And yes, dusting was a reference to "Buffy", and even "Interview" (thinking of the two that got burned).

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    Re: Twilight Fans Here?

    Post  Paeter on November 19th 2012, 6:53 pm

    Okay, so we've gotten a mixed reply of both those who "kinda" like Twilight and those who just plain don't. Again though, I'm especially interested in hearing from folks who DO like Twilight... even LOVE Twilight!

    Any of you out there? Don't be put off by these naysayers! Step into the light! You are welcome here and I'd love to hear your thoughts! And though confused by it, I will passionately defend your love for sparkling vampires!


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    Re: Twilight Fans Here?

    Post  mindspike on November 20th 2012, 12:53 pm

    Desert Kris wrote:I like mindspike's approach, finding use for something that on the surface doesn't seem to have any redeeming value, so to speak.

    Credit where it's due, Paeter taught me to do that. study


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    Re: Twilight Fans Here?

    Post  mindspike on November 20th 2012, 1:58 pm

    Drew.Rub wrote:Vampires.
    Do.
    Not.
    Sparkle.
    EVER!!!!!!

    Vampires should burn, or dust, or die in some other violent manner. Not sparkle. We're supposed to be afraid of vampires, not falling in love with their sparkly little "Euro-trash" selves.

    Drew, you're my bro, my buddy, my go-to guy. But exactly why shouldn't vampires sparkle? Why must they die violently in sunlight?

    Sunlight has no effect Dracula in the Bram Stoker novel whatsoever. In oriental vampire mythology, the creature shuns the sunlight because it reveals its grotesque nature. In western vampire myths, the creatures are merely nocturnal predators. In 1922 FW Murnau filmed "Nosferatu", an unauthorized adaptation of Stoker's "Dracula". In the film, the choice to make the creature die in sunlight was specifically made to differentiate the film from the book. The device has proven popular with filmmakers ever since, as it is a very visual storytelling aid.

    I actually applaud the fact that Twilight's Edward sparkles in the sunlight. His brief speech in that scene is one of the few redeeming features of the story.

    -Bella: You're beautiful.
    -Edward: Of course I am. Everything about me is designed to attract you - my skin, my scent, my voice. It all works together to make you accept me instead of resisting me. As if I needed it ... I'm the perfect predator.

    The execution of the device falls apart pretty quickly, even for amateurish storytelling like this, but the point is well put. Edward is not a monster, he is a superior life form, the apex predator that happens to prey on humanity. I will believe a vampire can sparkle; it's one of the few things in the story that makes sense.


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    Re: Twilight Fans Here?

    Post  Dunadwarf on November 20th 2012, 6:44 pm

    I've only seen the movies via Rifftrax (except for the just-released one, obviously) and while I think the movies are terrible, the riffed versions are among the best the guys do, so in that regard, I greatly enjoy them.

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    Re: Twilight Fans Here?

    Post  Nuinil on November 20th 2012, 6:48 pm

    Twilight? Yes!..no. Sorry, false alarm, I'm not a fan ^^ I do like how mindspike defends and makes a case for the sparkly side of vampires. I don't think I have every come across a topic in which it is discussed if vampires have the right to sparkle or not Wink

    I have not read or watched Twilight. Not simply out of stubbornness, but because what I heard does not appeal to me. It seems like one of those stories which will just annoy me to no end.

    One reason is that I got the strong impression that Edward and Bella share a extremely unhealthy and obsessive, stalker like relationship. I would just get annoyed at how the author would play this off as perfectly normal, charming and a loving relationship. It makes no sense. And in the trailer of the last movie, Bella claimed that she was born to be a vampire… That just makes me want to roll my eyes, for more than one reason.

    However, I know of a few who did watch it and one is definitely impressed by the abs of one of the actors and they both see it as just entertainment. They don’t see it as great literature. More like a chick flick, I suppose. So for just guilty pleasure and pure entertainment, it probably works.

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    Re: Twilight Fans Here?

    Post  ComiKate on November 22nd 2012, 5:45 pm

    Paeter wrote:Okay, so we've gotten a mixed reply of both those who "kinda" like Twilight and those who just plain don't. Again though, I'm especially interested in hearing from folks who DO like Twilight... even LOVE Twilight!

    Any of you out there? Don't be put off by these naysayers! Step into the light! You are welcome here and I'd love to hear your thoughts! And though confused by it, I will passionately defend your love for sparkling vampires!

    Ok, now you make me want to like the movies, just to see and hear you passionately defend my love for them! Very Happy

    Honestly, I'm neutral. I haven't seen them yet, but I won't say I never will. Just haven't gotten round to it.
    Sorry.
    Will give you a "holler" once I do - though that probably won't be in the very near future.

    I can offer you my very passionate love for some other very silly geek fandom instead...? (I know, cold comfort, very cold...)



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